Kingdom of church?
Alot is being said about the church these days. So I have a question for you...
Is the Kingdom of God synonymous with the Church?
Really think about it - it's not as easy to answer as you might think. Then post your thoughts.
posted by Rob Petkau at 1:20 PM
13 Comments:
At first I thought no absolutely not.... Now I am not so sure, so I am going to ponder this question and get back to you.
It depends on what church you are talking. Is it Church the people or the Church the community?
I believe the people are synonymous with the Kingdom of God as Christ parables speak of this.
I am writing off the cuff so I think I need to ponder more. But here is a few thoughts.
"the church the people or the church the community"
What is the difference?
but I digress. The kingdom of God revolves around Christ with the church as partakers.
ie. "the kingdom of god is like unto 10 virgins that went out to meet the bridegroom..." The virgins abviously being the church.
Yes. I am the church, as are you. If you were to ask if the local church (inherited, old skool, institutional, program oriented and program driven) is the kingdom of God, then that depends.
If the church is as synonym with what we have created that meets between 10-11am on Sundays, I don't know if I could.
I guess I'm just frustrated that the word "church" has become such a swear word. And for good reason sometimes. What most people asociate with the word "church" has little to do with the Kingom of God. But a part of me wants to fight - to win back the word "church", and in essence - re define it to mean "the Kingdom of God". Now granted, I don't know how to accomplish this - but I sense that God is doing exactly that already - and I want in.
It's funny you should ask that question since I did a little study on it for a final paper. That doesn't mean I know it all - but I wonder what people think of when they hear the word church? (what do they define it as) As for what Jesus said - He mentions alot about what the Kingdom of God is like... and refers to our behavior and attitudes to take up and be such. So then "the Church"(depending on your definition of the meaning)and the Kingdom of God should be synonymus. Or should it? After all the Kingdom of God is now but yet not yet is it not? SO then can "the Chruch" really be the Kingdom of God in its fullest sense? I would like to think so - because of the blessed assurance of what Christ has done we KNOW that He was and is and is to come - why can't "the Church" just be what we are meant to be?... Your question is a good one Rob - it definitely needs more thought than this rabbling momment that I have given... You and I both know that the question what is the Kingdom of God opened a bigger can of worms than I expected when I did my paper - thanks for your help by the way - I did well on it.
Hi Rob, long time no comment. Came across this quote that I liked by an old old preacher of "the Church" John Chrysostom (349 - 407). Hopefully it's not too long for this comment thingy...
"Think you that to be religious is to be constant in Church-going? This is nothing, unless we reap some fruit for ourselves: if (from gathering together in Church) we do not gather something for ourselves, it were better to remain at home. For our forefathers built the Churches for us, not just to bring us together from our private houses and show us one to another: since this could have been done also in a market-place, and in baths, and in a public procession:–but to bring together learners and teachers, and make the one better by means of the other. With us it has all become mere customary routine, and formal discharge of a duty: a thing we are used to; that is all. Easter comes, and then great the stir, great the hubbub, and crowding of–I had rather not call them human beings, for their behaviour is not commonly human. Easter goes, the tumult abates, but then the quiet which succeeds is again fruitless of good. “Vigils, and holy hymn-singing.”– And what is got by these? Nay, it is all the worse. Many do so merely out of vanity."
People change, but not that much...
No...I think sadly we've made "it" our little kingdom.
"The church gets in trouble whenever it things it is in the church business rather than the Kingdom business. In the church business, people are concerned with church activities, religious behavior and spiritual things. In the Kingdom business, people are concerned with Kingdom activities, all human behavior and everything God has made, visible and invisible. Kingdom people see human affairs as saturated with spiritual meaning and Kingdom significance. Kingdom people seek first the Kingdom of God and its justice; church people often put church work above concerns of justice, mercy and truth. Church people think about how to get people into the church; Kingdom people think about how to get the church into the world. Church people worry that the world might change the church; Kingdom people work to see the church change the world... If the church has one great need, it is this: To be set free for the Kingdom of God, to be liberated from itself as it has become in order to be itself as God intends. The church must be freed to participate fully in the economy of God." - Howard A Snyder Liberating the Church: The Ecology of Church and Kingdom Pg. 11
Wow, rich quote Ron (hello btw).
Here's to the revolutionaries who will not rest until the church becomes the Kingdom.
"A little revolution once in a while is a good thing, don't you think?" (the Hunt for Red October).
Rob
The Church is not the Kindgom but it is in the kindgom.
The Kingdom of God is all about the sacifice of the heart...
When the Church is self - sacrificial it is a part of the Kingdom of God. When it is not... it is clearly not a part of Christ's Kingdom.
No.
We could define church as the "people" or 'C'hurh, but this is not what normally comes to mind when someone says church. Some of the things that we do are synonomous with the Kingdom of God, but not on the whole. Much of what we do is simply our western cultural expression and tradition of our spirituality. I suggest that a lot of this is not synonomous.
Synonymous? I think, no.
The church is not the same thing as the Kingdom of God, but I do think that the church exists within the Kingdom of God.
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